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magic the gathering – Would this hypothetical rule change ever matter?


Your hypothetical rule change would by no means matter, as a result of there’s presently no means for a participant to win and lose the sport concurrently and subsequently it’s unattainable for 104.3f to use.

Usually, the steps of an impact in Magic are adopted within the order they’re written, usually APNAP order. An impact stating “you lose the sport and also you win the sport” would trigger you to lose the sport strictly first, earlier than the “you win the sport” impact may apply.

There are two exceptions to this generalization: injury occasions (510.2) and state-based actions (704.3). Alternative results can substitute solely elements of those occasions, so theoretically by filtering via a number of substitute results we may change one a part of the occasion to “you lose the sport” and one other half to “you win the sport”.

Sadly, the one option to win the sport with substitute results is thru Laboratory Maniac or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries. Each of those require us to attract a card through a substitute impact, and a really particular rule will get in our means:

121.7. Some substitute results and prevention results lead to a number of card attracts. In such a case, if there are any elements of the unique occasion that haven’t been changed, these elements happen first, then the cardboard attracts occur one by one.

Contemplate the next scenario. A participant who has an empty library and graveyard controls:

Their opponent assaults with a 2/2 creature with trample, they usually block with their 1/1. The injury occasion begins out as

(1 injury dealt to the 1/1 AND SIMULTANEOUSLY 1 injury is dealt to the two/2 AND SIMULTANEOUSLY 1 injury is dealt to the participant AND SIMULTANEOUSLY the participant positive aspects 1 life)

The previous two are irrelevant for our functions. Nefarious Lich’s substitute results change the latter two occasions to

(the participant exiles 1 card from their graveyard, if they can not they lose the sport AND SIMULTANEOUSLY the participant attracts 1 card)

Should you did not find out about 121.7, you may assume that Laboratory Maniac replaces the draw right here leading to a simultaneous win and loss. However what truly occurs is that 121.7 notices a substitute impact leading to a card draw and ends in

(the participant loses the sport.) then,
(the participant attracts 1 card.)

So the participant merely loses.

Should you’re notably astute, you may seize upon 121.7’s wording “the unique occasion” and suppose that it might not apply if we utterly changed each a part of the beginning impact. Nonetheless, I’ve personally consulted with a choose I do know. He says that the consensus within the judging group is that “unique” on this context refers to not the impact that was initially generated earlier than substitute results began to use, however to the impact after the substitute impact that ends in card attracts. In different phrases, it doesn’t imply “if each a part of the impact that was generated has been overwritten by substitute results”, however as a substitute means “if any a part of the impact that has now been partially changed with card attracts consists of one thing aside from card attracts”.

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